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I second the opinion about SRC, beware, I paid with a credit card and kept a solid record of the whole transaction. WHen they turned out deceptive, I was able to slam them through the credit card company and get all my money returned. Just a hassle.

BTW, why was Acc-U-Lead at the NRMLA convention with a record like that. I expect better from NRMLA!

I could appreciate the “exposee” if it came from anywhere but AARP. Give me a break, AARP sells their name to put on insurance products at a cost 20% to 50% above the exact equal products on the market and call it looking out for the interests of senior citizens instread of financial pillage and rape of gulible seniors.

I just got my 4th AARP mailer for “senior” citizens telling me all the benefits of joining AARP – I”m 38 for God’s sake. AARP has proven to be a masterful marketing organization orgainzed behind the facade of a non-profit with the lobbying power and fiancial resources to call the shots when they choose.

Let AARP clean up their own act before they start throwing stones at others. Let them put disclaimers on their own marketing that their product is the more expensive than any other on the market because it uses the AARP name to decieve seniors. Maybe AARP should stop “seducing” seniors with exorbinantly price product on the illusion that the AARP offers speical benefits and protections. May AARP should renouce their own cash cow of commercial marketing of insurance and other products and gain some credibility to criticize others.

The Reverse Mortgage industry needs to be policed, but not by an organization like AARP that has some many fiancial irons in the fire and are the worst offenders of what they accuse others of doing.

A agree…AARP is a self-rightous scam. Word on the street is that they will soon be in the Reverse Mortgage business themselves…..

If you all stop buying leads from all of these unethical venders we would not have this problem. Whenever I bought leads from one of these places it has been a loss, period. Think about it, how well do you really do with these leads. I cant stand these places making believe they are a senior service or an education service and then they just sell names over and over to us. They are all over the net. We are feeding them. I have stopped a long time ago.

I’ve received calls from several of my clients, asking questions about literature they received from the US Government regarding their Reverse Mortgage. I explain the mailing they’ve received is a scam and wish I could provide them with a phone number for them to call and report the mailing.

Yes, the CSA (Certified Senior Advisor) designation is worth every penny. If you don’t have a contact at CSA (http://www.society-csa.com/) then ask for Peggy.

But like anything, you need to not only get the designation but also promote it like you promote yourself & RMs. Tell people you are a Certified Senior Advisor! This CSA designation not only gets you the proper education but also instant respect.

I have been a CSA for nearly 10 years.

Tim Linger, CSA, RMS

We purchased bad leads from SRC a couple of years ago, but we placed the purchase on a credit card so we were able to reverse the charge. I know others that had a similar experience. To my surprise they continue to call us from time to time.

After reading the ARRP hatchet peice, I called the owner of Acc-u-lead. I have used his lead generation for 3 years without a complaint. Ron told me that he was sent questions by the author of the warning which he responded in 4 pages. Not one word of his response was used in the peice. It was all based on old information from a decade ago that had nothing to with Reverse Mortgage leads. It seems to me that the goal of the article was to generate fear without grounding it in solid journalism. This is the kind of crap that should be regulated and fined.

Why does AARP assume that when a person hits 62 and becomes a “senior” they become idiots. If they send back a card and PUT THEIR PHONE NUMBER ON IT, do you really think they don’t want to be called. Does AARP even understand the benefits of the HECM program?

If AARP had their way, every insurance dollar you spend after becoming a senior would have AARPs name on it.

Jerry,

Call me to discuss your situation if you would like. I am not aware of who you are or what you ordered, but we have no record of a complaint. 866-693-7633 ext 811

By the way, the HECM program is Congressoinaly Mandated and federally insure. The government is more than a little invovled. I agree that some of the lead cards are intentionally made to look like they are from the government. That is wrong, but Acculead does not cross that line. I use them, I like them. AARP needs to get a life.

Quality & respectable RM leads are important to the success of our industry. Perhaps RMD could do a follow-up story (blog) to allow Acculead, SRC, and/or any other company to defend themselves, make good on their promises, and or get slammed for good and be forced out of business – forever. …or grow their business (get endorsed) if they are quality companies after all. i try to keep an open mind. (SRC is trash however!!)

It would be nice if NRMLA, RMD, some lenders, etc could “recommend” (may be too strong of a word) certain lead companies.

Tim Linger, CSA, CLTC, RMS

Yes I am with Acc-U-Lead and here are some quick facts:
Several of our clients have been audited by FHA and submitted our lead pieces and were told they are perfectly OK.
The reporter for AARP was told that and also received 3 pages in a response of which he put not one word in his article. He only used bits and pieces of a phone conversation we had for 3 minutes.
The issue with Social Security is this: A statute ( 11-20-B ) was passed by congress, pushed for by AARP, which states you can not use the word Social Security in an advertisement. I am sure there is no coincidence that AARP at the time, and still to this day was promoting, and benefiting from Insurance products promoted under the AARP name. Acc-U-lead was one of the largest mailers in the insurance industry, and as all lead companies and Insurance companies at the time, Acc-U-Lead mailed a card that stated a factual statement ” Social Security will only pay $255.00 death benefit “. The same statement heard on TV commercials at the time. The government came after Acc-U-Lead and many others including insurance companies, a SETTLEMENT with NO ADMISSION of wrong doing was the most cost effective way to end all the legal battles with the government. Acc-U-Lead has No complaints from Social Security in over 10 years.
Last point: all of our leads can be found at at our website under OUR LEAD. The word reverse mortgage and/or HECM is clearly stated. Anyone with suggestions or comments on our leads please feel free call me at 866-693-7633 ext 811

We understand that this industry will always be under a microscope therefore we beleive it is important for all of us in the industry to follow the Best Ethical Practices.

Chris was nice enough to reach out to me and is looking into my lead order history with Acculead to determine what went awry. I’ll be happy to post the results.

I have worked off and on with AccuLead/4Leads/USSS since 2005 and only have good things to say. They have had booths at NRMLA for the past two years and NRMLA is well aware of their piece. They have been active to modify it to the likings of regulators and industry organizations.

Is it true that some seniors misunderstand the solicitaion? From experience, yes. However, it is then our responsibility as mortgage professionals to educate, determine interest and need, and then to do the right thing.

I have been scammed by others and after nearly four years, Ron has never done me wrong and he answers his phone and emails promptly. If you have concerns, perhaps you should contact him directly.

Cynic brings up a good point. The counselors should put more emphasis on the importance of a line of credit, but the real culprit is that nasty enemy of the borrower called “YSP”. Can the readers suggest an alternative?

The Cynic brought up “the wise and prudent use of proceeds”. We would all hope that everyone seniors and otherwise, would be “wise and prudent” in the use of money. We would hope the Government would be “wise and prudent” in the use of money, especially borrowed money. We might wish rainwater were beer, but its not. We would like that euphemism would not mislead (income vs. loan proceeds; Stimulus Bill vs. Spending pork package; etc.) but it is a difficult thing to legislate. We can educate, distribute literature, and counsel, but the bottom line is it is a personal choice what mature, consenting adults do with their money, be it in the form of cash in the bank or loans on equity. Do we really want it any different?

Dear “The Cynic”

You assume that I am licensed to sell insurance. You are incorrect. I am NOT licensed and have not been since 1999. I received my CLTC in 2001 because the education helps me understand the LTC needs of seniors and thus helps me in my RM career. Yes, I sell HECMs.

Thanks for all the legal advice anyway. In my case it does not apply.

Thanks for your concern though.

Tim Linger, CSA, CLTC
…and definitely an RMS

Cynic,

Why don’t you ask the same question of AARP. Why don’t they just say they are selling a MetLife medicaid, Or whoever the company of the moment is and not say it is AARP which is not an insurance company at all, just a name to make their marketing more effective. If they were to use the real insurance company name would the results be the same? of course not. Grow up and join the real world.

Cynic,

I believe truth in advertising is essential. You can’t call proceeds from a RM a government benefit, that is obvious. No one would argue with that. But a program available only to someone over 62 is undeniably a Senior Program. If the FHA insures and guarentees the loan, then it is a FHA insured and guarenteed loan and should be OK to say so. Like yourself, I think deceptive marketing should be supressed, but some think that calling it what it is, an FHA loan, is going too far.

Second, I agree with your statement that “it is utter nonsense that all seniors are competent to contract and handle their own matters like every other “consenting” adult”. Thank you, that is my point exactly. When zealot regulators types start talking about guilble, vunerable “seniors”, they start legislating for a whole widely disparate group of citizens called generically “seniors”.

As you pointed out, it is the entire US mortgage industry where counseling is required as part of a FHA loan. Your right, that is why FHA and lenders are so careful with a Power of Attorney – often to protect parents from rapacious children.

Their are currently effective speed bumps in place to protect consumers with this product. They are even counseled by AARP certified counselors to protect them from mis-information.

The irony of it is that the degree and direction some senior protections advocates are going, the only thing left is to have the government start dictating who can and cannot do a HECM and it really becomes a “government benefit program”.

Chris, with all due respect I never heard back from you regarding your offer to look into my problems with your company. You did acknowledge that you found my records and that there were problems. I tried to call you back several times but your voice mailbox is full, which is surprising for a national salesmanager. Please follow up with me. You have my contact information.

Not that this will spark anymore discussion on the matter but I found this whole ordeal very interesting. It is like a lynch mob out for blood under the direction of another entity vying for the same market share. It is like an episode out of “Bonanza”. Fortunately commenter #7 steps up to say, “Wait a minute.”.

I myself have been using direct mail for over twenty years and direct mail has been around even longer. These “tactics” as you call them, are nothing new here people. They may only be new to the mortgage industry. Ask anyone in the burial or medicare insurance industry about this and they will tell you it is a common practice. Seniors have been getting this for type of mail for years. When they mail the reply card they are expecting to get information. They are requesting this information.

NOW, having said all that, lets examine the internet. This IS an area where the senior is not real savvy. It is also the area that is expected to grow the most over the coming years. Here is an industry wrought with deception. I recently ran across a company’s website, http://www.reversemortgageadviser.com using the deception of the reverse mortgage calculator to generate leads. The unsuspecting internet user enters his/her information into the calculator hoping to gain the knowledge of what they might gain by doing a reverse mortgage only to be told someone will be contacting them. AMBUSH! And yes, a new window opens and with the click of yet another button you can see the calculation results. Now the users information can and will be sold and resold when he/she was just researching as if they were at their local library. Further investigation led to the discovery this company then sells that information to LO’s and mortgage companies at $60 to $90 a lead. Talk about deception! Where is the lynch mob on this. At least with the mail the senior knows when they mail something they can expect to be contacted. They are a willing participant. Unfortunately, they like our children are easy prey on the internet.

They are also going by the “The Lead Store” now. I made the mistake of buying a 25 lead introductory package and got totaly ripped off.

They promised to provide me with my leads within 3-6 weeks. After three months I went back to Visa and had them reverse the payment since I had only gotten six leads in all that time. When they received the chargeback, they all of the sudden came up with the rest of the leads in one shot. None of the leads looked like a senior had signed them. You can tell the difference between the signature of an eighty year old and a young person.

I am in the process of getting affidavids from all of the people who supposedly responded stating that they never sent the cards back (Accu-Lead faked the signatures). After that I plan on going after them through both my states AG and in civil court. Hell, maybe if I can get a big enough class together we could actually put these scumbags out of business. After all, I was so discouraged with all that is goning on in the mortgage industry that I got out of the business after over twenty years of mortgage lending. Accu-Lead (The Lead Store) was the straw that broke this cammels back.